Output Board Ideas

Hi everyone,
I would like to start a discussion here, if anyone has an idea for a new Output board. Currently, the Vanity^PRO can be purchased with four different Output boards:

[*] Stereo
[*] Multichannel XLR
[*] Multichannel RCA
[*] Multichannel BNC

We also have a prototype of an I₂S Output board with D-SUB connector for testing, but due to different connectors used and non-standard pinout for multichannel it hasn't been made as an available option (yet).

Since the Vanity^PRO has interchangeable Output boards, a new board can be relatively easily designed. So, if you have an idea for an Output board for multichannel digital audio that would be useful for certain application, please feel free to share it here.

Thank you!

Best Regards,
Pavel



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/24/2021 01:08PM by AP.

Yes, my vote would be for Multichannel IS2 HDMI) pairs outputs.
Some of the newer DACS are built with internal IS2 buss and therefore support HDMI connector inputs that deliver the best sound - example Denafrips. Some also have chang-able IS2 configuration controls to support the different non-standard IS2 pin configs.

Best regards,
MultiChMaven

Hi MultiChMaven,
Thank you for your input. We have been playing with the multi-channel I2S output module for a while. The option with 4xHDMI connectors for I2S output is probably the most practical idea, since all other connectors and pinouts such as RJ45 are not that common.
Best Regards,
Pavel

This likely isn't a valid suggestion, but it'd be great if there was a board that had even more outputs... Like 16 channels. One could run two OKTO dacs directly and have an incredible amount of channel routing available.... For instance, multiway LCR, multiple subs, or the ability to run multiple systems from one piece of equipment, like a stereo rig and a multichannel rig with the same set of sources. It would take maybe a couple minutes of configuration to dance between the two.

Personally I feel like this is a rather revolutionary product that many people are not grasping the benefit of. There is a lot of dogma in our somewhat antiquated audio circles that don't really see the potential of a product like this.

PLEASE keep up the good work and this is only my two cents! For the record I like the idea of I2S over HDMI output as another option.

Hi feurkils,
Thank you!
Yes, multichannel I2S via 4xHDMI with PS-Audio pinout is something we have been considering, only if there were more people using I2S! :-) The good thing about the VanityPRO is that there are virtually endless possibilities how to get the audio out using various output boards. We found a way to even add a standard digital audio input (SPDIF/AES) to make the VanityPRO a digital audio switch with multiple inputs.
Probably the next most requested output board option would be USB Audio with ASRC to turn the VanityPRO into HDMI Audio to USB Audio converted for computer based multichannel room processing. Something to look at really closely.
Regards,
Pavel

For me personally spdif inputs would be really helpful, I could use the Vanity for all source material at that point... USB output has some validity to it as well! I'm going to suspect you'd wouldn't give out a timeline for any of this would you?

Another thought… you could consider a breakout style cable for multiple spdif output formats. Something on a little multi pin d-sub connection. Audiophiles will probably think it’s kind of cheesy but RME makes it work on their ADI2 pro; there is Spdif i/o on RCA and AES via a little breakout dongle. If you oriented it all vertically, you might even be able to squeeze the I2S over HDMI sockets for each channel too. Or squeeze in USB instead of I2S. Or do any two out of three options. Any of these might broaden the appeal for folks.

It seems like there are intentions not to attempt anything main stream with this, but with a full suite of inputs and more flexible output options, you’d have a very feature rich d/d format converter. Could compete with the other d/d converts whilst still having some major aces up its sleeve that the other units couldn’t touch. Especially so if you considered expanding the output options like above.

Just a thought, Hope this is helpful.

feurkils Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> you'd wouldn't give out a timeline for any of this
> would you?

Well, we certainly won't be able to give you an exact availability date, but I can at least share some progress

feurkils Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This likely isn't a valid suggestion, but it'd be
> great if there was a board that had even more
> outputs... Like 16 channels. One could run two
> OKTO dacs directly and have an incredible amount
> of channel routing available.... For instance,
> multiway LCR, multiple subs, or the ability to run
> multiple systems from one piece of equipment, like
> a stereo rig and a multichannel rig with the same
> set of sources. It would take maybe a couple
> minutes of configuration to dance between the two.
>
> Personally I feel like this is a rather
> revolutionary product that many people are not
> grasping the benefit of. There is a lot of dogma
> in our somewhat antiquated audio circles that
> don't really see the potential of a product like
> this.
>
> PLEASE keep up the good work and this is only my
> two cents! For the record I like the idea of I2S
> over HDMI output as another option.
Or the option to use a second unit to cover channels 9-16.

Pavel,

I saw your post on ASR and the new post you made for this specifically… This board solves a number of issues, some of which I didn’t really even considered… I like that you can now do 8 channels over a single connection and the ASRC is a great feature too. My only selfish quibble is the single HDMI input only. Is it possible to offer a suite of spdif inputs too? It’s be fantastic to have not only a fallback option should an HDMI source be problematic but one could use this with other devices that don’t have an HDMI output. I’m thinking mainly streaming devices here… One could conceivably route all source devices to this and benefit from the dejitter and diagnostics then route into a DSP engine and out via whatever floats their boat.

Either way, very nice work.

Pavel,

Hadn’t really thought about how a single 8 channel usb connection would considerably reduce cable counts vs spdif… I’ll have to give this option some serious thought.

On the input side, any chance that more than just HDMI is possible? Having a suite of spdif inputs would increase the usefulness of this for those who have non HDMI sources. At that point it could be a spdif to usb converter with ASRC, diagnostic info, channel routing, etc.

Really great work sir!

Hi there,
We have progressed a little to the point of having firm specs available for the USB board and also I2S board.

The former one has also two BNCs, one input and one output. The output is simply a stereo (front) SPDIF output from the USB interface to make it more flexible either for audio monitoring or synchronization of another device. The input is a general purpose digital audio input that one could switch between HDMI/ARC/SPDIF-IN. The board is significantly more expensive to build and it will need to be a paid option.


The I2S board has 4 HDMI connectors for 8-channel I2S with "PS Audio pinout". Therefore it should be straight forward to connect it to a I2S compatible DAC(s).


All traces are carefully length matched

Regards,
Pavel



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/26/2022 11:40AM by AP.

For the stereo unit I'd like to see I2S on HDMI. Given the choice I'd take it over the HDMI video pass through. Happy to see the BNC & AES/EBU.

Hi edo,
The HDMI output (pass through) is hard wired to carry HDMI signal and it would not be easy to mux with I2S. We will take your suggestion of I2S via HDMI for the stereo out module on board. The tricky bit would be the same as for the multichannel version - there are just too many different pinouts, even signals in differential pairs swapped from the original HDMI pinout, that makes it virtually impossible to make the I2S output universal enough to cover all possible configurations. Once we get some feedback on the multichannel version we will definitely consider adding I2S output to the stereo version.
Regards,
Pavel

8-channel ADAT Lightpipe please. It will make it easy to connect to professional D/A converters with ADAT inputs (RME) with a small, lightweight, inexpensive cable.

Thanks!

Hi OnaIp,
Good suggestion, thanks! Isn't ADAT limited to 48kHz per channel in 8-channel configuration? I think beyond 48kHz there is some multiplexing over multiple light-pipes going on. It has been a while I did anything with ADAT, so time to refresh the knowledge .
Regards,
Pavel

OnaIp Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 8-channel ADAT Lightpipe please. It will make it
> easy to connect to professional D/A converters
> with ADAT inputs (RME) with a small, lightweight,
> inexpensive cable.
>
> Thanks!

You can implement higher sampling rates using ADAT S/MUX mode, but you'll need to add more physical toslink connectors to support 8-channel. That's how all pro audio interface manufacturers implement it as far as I'm aware.

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADAT_Lightpipe#Data_transfer:
"Higher sample rates can be accommodated with a reduced number of channels. While the original ADAT machines did not support this, the Lightpipe format was modified using bit-splitting techniques by the company Sonorus. Known as S/MUX (short for 'sample multiplexing'), this connection allows 4 channels at up to 96 kHz, or two channels at up to 192 kHz, on one optical cable. Most manufacturers implementing ADAT Lightpipe now support this S/MUX interface extension."

Cheers!

This is great! Can't wait. Good work guys!

Would it be possible to design a board with HDMI in and regular HDMI out? I am asking could the VanityPro be used to "clean up" the HDMI signal before inputting the into a surround processor? Or does converting back to HDMI recreate the problem that you have fixed?

Karl W. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Or
> does converting back to HDMI recreate the problem
> that you have fixed?

Hi Karl, you are right, the problem is largely inherent to the HDMI protocol and it's implementation and there isn't much that can bo done about it. I have pointed that out in the HDMI jitter article HERE, where I question the benefits of "audio only" HDMI outputs, which is probably the best you can get from that technology.

Regards,
Pavel